Sorry for the belated comment. This topic seems to have stirred up a s***storm in the Korean blogging community! I agree in general that there is just too much polarization and overall nastiness. Apart from the outright racist stuff (which goes both ways), the whole Shelton-vs.-everyone else soap opera at the Marmot’s Hole is just bizarre. (I admit I’ve gotten involved in it from time to time, though never uncritically slamming Shelton just for being Shelton.)

Anyhow, your post seems reasonable and well balanced. I don’t see how simply saying to anyone (in bold letters), “Don’t come here!” solves anything, although I may agree with some of the other points that various others have said. (Though as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I’ve never taught English in Korea or had to deal professionally with English teachers in Korea, so my ability to comment knowledgeably is limited.)

Anyhow, one point you made:

“the expatriates by and large have extremely large debt loads–debt loads that the Korean populace generally doesn’t seem to have.”

…might have been true up to, oh, about 5 years ago or so, and I think historically (over the last 50 years) South Korea was overall a much more saving than spending society (but spending judiciously on a macroeconomic scale; and the personal spending was held in check by, for example, restrictions or high tariffs during the Park Chung Hee era on conspicuous consumption-type goods), but very recently, consumer credit has been spiralling out of control, with many consumers running up huge personal debts.

China Law

Sumiyoshi Pilgrim, thanks for your comment. San Nakji, we’re on the same page—again!

EFL Geek, thanks for your detailed comments, which are interesting, as always. If I understand you correctly, I would say that I do not agree with you that the financial situation of foreign EFL teachers has nothing to do with the article. It has everything to do with it: most of us would not be here if it were not for our financial situations. We work for money. When that money is witheld, teachers are justified in making attempts to get it back. I made the point I did in the context of the attack on the writer of the original article. Please note that nowhere did I say that Korean teachers should be paid less than foreign teachers simply because they are Korean. I still do not understand what people have against an English teacher insisting in the pages of the Korea Times that the contracts of English teachers be honored.

You may be right about me being sheltered from the number of “freaky waegooks,” as you so humorously put it, in the country. It’s true that I haven’t socialized with foreigners, apart from the ones I’ve met through their blogs, and my grad school friend Ian, who is the hardest worker I know other than my dad. I guess I’m starting to socialize with some of my co-workers at my university. I do read many K-blogs, including those of first and second year teachers. Most of them are written by reasonable, good people. I stay away from the comments sections of the major blogs, and from forums like Dave’s ESL Café. It seems difficult to believe that the people there, who are by and large real whiners, are a representative sample; I think the bloggers are a more representative sample. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t: we need statistics based on sound methodology to conclude anything. Those are lacking at this time. Meanwhile, I assert that the burden of proof is on those who claim that the majority of foreigners bring a majority of the problems they experience on themselves.

Finally, I wonder if it is possible that the situation was even worse a few years ago than it is now. Korea has certainly changed a lot; is it possible the character of the foreign teachers has changed, too?

In the end, we may have to disagree on some things, which is fine. And you are always welcome to comment further, of course.

If I may condense my original seven points into a few, I would conclude, generally, not specifically in response to the comments here, by saying:

1) The post at the Marmot’s Hole was an unwarranted personal attack on someone who was merely saying that English teachers’contracts should be honored. Subsequent endorsements of that article on other blogs disappointed me because of that attack.
2)It is overly pessimistic to expect Korean society to refrain from adopting western notions of contracts. In a global economy, Korean companies already must adopt western standards for business contracts and legal issues when they operate outside Korea. It is consistent with this principle for me to argue that Korean business customs here change to include a more transparent approach to contracts with international English teachers. It is only a step from there to better treatment of 3-D and Korean workers also. The censuring of the Korea Times writer, and of others who try to make sure that contracts are honored works in favor of inertia and fatalistic acceptance of an unfortunate status quo.

For example, although salaries for English teachers here are relatively high compared to what non-specialized B.A. or M.A. holders could get back in their native countries, or compared to what most Korean English instructors make here, the expatriates by and large have extremely large debt loads–debt loads that the Korean populace generally doesn’t seem to have. The fact that people take responsibility for their debts, rather than merely defaulting, is a point in their favor. They do need the money.

this is non-sequitor and has no bearing on working in Korea. Just because Koreans know how to save money doesn’t mean they should be paid less than ex-pat workers. In this case you are comparing apples and oranges. I speak as someone who came over with high student loan debt. Everyone needs money – there is nothing new about this fact, but it has no relevance on the article or issue at hand.

Jeff’s claim that the bulk of the problems experienced by English teachers are caused by themselves is completely unsupported in his post, and is almost certainly wrong.

You are wrong and Jeff is correct. There is massive amounts of anecdotal evidence supporting his statement. I suspect that somehow you have been sheltered from the number of freaky waegooks in this country.

If foreign English teachers are willing to put up with illegal treatment, it makes things that much more difficult for the 3-D workers and the Korean English teachers.

I agree with this.

For many English teachers, especially those with high student loans, teaching here is almost forced on them,

No one forces anyone to come to Korea. Canada is a socialist country and noone will starve or be without housing if they go on welfare and/or UI however distasteful that may be. I fail to see how anyone can be forced to live outside thier own country due to student loan debt.

This geographical section of the blogosphere is going to hell in a handcart, and will continue to do so unless people clean up their acts.

it’s not any worse than other areas of the internet. Annonymity does strange things to people.

update Seoul Hero and The Asia Pages also discuss this topic. The asia pages agrees with Jeffs article wholeheartedly and then provides personal anecdotal evidence well worth Reading. Seoul Hero writes alot and a little later when I have more time I&ap…